Into the Score - January 19, 2008 Street Fighter 2 1) Intro 2) Contact Info 3) 1991 in Gaming 4) Street Fighter '89 5) Story of the Game 6) Legacy a. Ports b. (string of SF games after the game was released) 7) Effect of the Game on the World a. The Rise of the Fighter Genre 8) Composers a. Yoshihiro Sakaguchi, Yoko Shimamura, Tatsuya Nishimura and Isao Abe 9) The Music a. Leitmotifs b. Ethnomusicology i. 1892 World's Fair c. Ethnic Influence i. (Ken's end, quotes Midsummer Night's Dream "Wedding") ii. Chun-Li iii. Vega INTRO (MADE IN THE USA) I'm Kenley Kristofferson... and this is Into the Score. Happy January, gamers, musicians, scholars or those who just dig video game music! I'm Kenley and you're tuned in to Episode 17 of Into the Score, the only podcast solely devoted to the academic study of video game music. Tonight is going to be a pretty big podcast as we dive into Capcom's 1991 release of Street Fighter II for the arcade console, SNES and the Genesis or MegaDrive along with studying the 100-year old musical field of ethnomusicology! I hope that you're rockin' out to our tunes behind us here, this is "Made in USA" and it's remixing "Ken's Stage" from the OST. It's remixed by Juan Medrano, aka "Sixto Sounds" and this particular remix is from an OCReMix arrangement album of SF2 called "Blood on the Asphalt" and we're going to listen to some of that a bit later as well. And now, I most humbly present (drum roll)... the contact info. (CONTACT INFO) CONTACT INFO The address for Into the Score is www.intothescore.com, as always. If you would like to reach me, you can always send me a note at Kenley@intothtescore.com, so k-e-n-l-e-y@intothescore.com! Definitely leave comments on the episode of your choice or an any episode at all! It is always awesome to hear from you! So far, all is going well throughout the land. All of my wind bands are getting ready to go to the Optimist Festival, which is a pretty big prairie band festival. Most groups come from Manitoba, but others come from Saskatchewan, Ontario and we usually get a few from North Dakota, which is pretty cool, definitely looking forward to it! That would help explain the reason for the lateness of the show these past weeks. I find that I've been saying that a lot lately, so I think that I may just have to say that I'll release the show every 3 weeks, instead of every 2 weeks. There just isn't enough time to do every two weeks, but in maybe over Spring Break or the Summer. We'll see... Also, before we jump into the episode, I just want to send a big shoutout to Kyle from the FXN podcast who has been going to bat for "Into the Score" for the past month - you are the man, Kyle. His podcast is out of finalfantasy-xiii.net and can also be found on iTunes under "FXN Final Fantasy XIII" podcast and is definitely worth checking out. In which case, let's get on with Street Fighter II. A lot of listeners may have some relationship with game, if it's Street Fighter II, Street Fighter Alpha or maybe just pumped that Street Fighter IV has just recently been announced! Street Fighter is one of those gaming franchises that continues to continue and has several sequels to its name - I think that the number is 25 right now, including the first Street Fighter, Street Fighter Alpha and Street Fighter III series. Some will argue that those are different series, but they're all clearly influenced by SF2, except SF2's prequel, of course. So, we haven't heard anything from the OST yet, maybe now would be a good time. While we haven't spoken about the characters yet, we shall soon, don't you worry. This is "Ryu's Stage" from the Street Fighter II OST and it was composed by Yoshihiro Sakaguchi, Yoko Shimamura, Tatsuya Nishimura and Isao Abe. (RYU) 1991 IN GAMING So, 1991, anything noteworthy happen in that year? The collapse of the Soviet Union in August of that year, the Gulf War was in full-swing, Nirvana releases their second album, the monumental "Nevermind", which would change the face of music for the next 17 years (and is still going on), and yes, Wolfgang van Halen is born. What about in gaming? Absolutely. It was a big year for hardware and software with some big franchises release their first games this year, as well as some huge releases from already-established series. Let's start with the franchises releasing their first games. Microprose develops Sid Meier's "Civilization" and on June 23, Sega releases Sonic the Hedgehog, which clearly became the system's mascot - obviously important! Speaking of Sega and their Genesis (or MegaDrive, outside of North America), that system had such a huge hardware advantage over its main competitor, the Nintendo Entertainment System, or NES - pretty much in every department, 16-bit vs. the NES's 8-bit, 512 colour palette, FM-stereo sound... I mean, NES was 8-bit, it could only produce 16 colours and it had that unique 2A03 sound-chip sound... the NES sound. Most gaming gearheads will say that you can't compare the NES and the Genesis, even though they were released at the same time. It's hard to ignore that Sega beat Nintendo to the punch with the Genesis/Megadrive system - I mean, you can compare the NES to the Sega Master System, which had similar specs, the SMS released in late 1986. By this time, you're probably thinking "Kenley, where are you going with this?" Well, here's the thesis of the discussion. In order to compete with the new Sega Genesis, Nintendo would need something that can play on the same field - so on August 13, 1991, Nintendo unleashes the Super Nintendo Entertainment System , or the SNES, in North America. It was released one year earlier in Japan. Now that there was this new system, some franchises would use this as a springboard to rev up their next installment of games. Nintendo's Super Mario World was bundled with the SNES and became a staple of that console's video games. In November of that year, Nintendo also releases The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, which was monumental and is still a fantastic game. One company that made a big release to the SNES that year was SquareSoft, releasing Final Fantasy IV to Japan in July of that year and Final Fantasy II in North America in November of that year as well... two days after Link to the Past, to be exact! Interestingly enough, Tecmo Super Bowl was put out for the NES and the wiki on the "1991 in video games" calls is "one of the most revolutionary football games of all-time." I mean, look at all the EA sports games out now, especially the NFL ones, or the Madden franchise... could all of their basic gameplay mechanics be traced back to Tecmo Super Bowl? This also begs the question of the modern fighting genre: Street Fighter II was released in 1991 - the very same wiki calls this "the grandfather of the fighting game genre." What made it so revolutionary? After we hear some music, I'll fill you in. This is "Guile's Stage" from Street Fighter II and it's done by Yoshihiro Sakaguchi, Yoko Shimamura, Tatsuya Nishimura and Isao Abe (GUILE) http://dextremes.com/genesis/gen-spec.html http://www.games4nintendo.com/nes/specs.php http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_in_video_gaming INSIDES That was "Guile's Stage" from the Street Figher II OST. Now, Street Fighter II was originally released for the CPS-1, or "Capcom Play System 1" arcade board. This arcade box looked like any other arcade box, it just had different insides - that was one of the reasons that arcade machines were (and still are) very expensive. You needed to have a screen and graphical hardware put in, processors, sound cards, video cards - it's like a whole computer! Well, a "computer" isn't exactly the best term - think of it more like a console. On this console, many Capcom games could be played, some notable ones for the CPS-1 include Final Fight, The King of Dragons, UN Squadron, and yes: Street Fighter II. A lot of SF2's success came from its gameplay mechanics, which were simple, yet revolutionary. For example, a character can block an attack in SF2 - because we've had popular fighting games for 17 years now, we might think "of course you can block, it's a fighting game!" But alas, not before Street Fighter. The game also has many differentiated characters, each with their own special moves - while this wasn't a new thing, there were modern adaptations which added a new degree of competition to using these super moves in a fight. One such adaptation was the six-button interface, which involved three buttons for punching and three buttons for kicks. Each different button had a different intensity and strength - for punching, you had the "jab", "strong" and "fierce", with the jab being really fast (but weak) and the fierce being really strong (but slow). For kicks, the same system applies, "short" is a faster, weaker kick, "forward" is a middle-of-the-road attack and "roundhouse" is a very strong, but slower... so all things in balance. Another exceptional quality of Street Fighter II is that the player can choose from 8 characters to become and can then play through the game as such. The previous convention in gaming was to be one character or hero and defeat all of these different enemies as this one dude, going against the odds - like being Little Mac in Mike Tyson's Punch-Out! In this, you can be eight different characters, but unfortunately, not Little Mac, there are no Punch-Out crossovers in this game. After you defeat the eight characters, there are four final bosses and we will learn all about them in the next segment. Let's hear one of their themes, though - this is the music when you are fighting the penultimate (or second-to-last) boss, Sagat, crazy things happening with time signature... also an impromptu trumpet solo... have a listen! This is Sagat! (SAGAT) STORY One has to ask, how do you have a story that blends in 8 characters? Well, there are two ways of looking at the plot - the first is the main story arc that the game follows, then connecting each character to that arc, and the second is finding out each character's individual reasons for being involved in the game. To know the main story arc that Street Fighter II follows, one must know the tale of its prequel, Street Fighter, also called Street Fighter '87. In the first SF game, Ryu enters a tournament and defeats competitors from all over the world to eventually fight the "Emperor of Muay Thai," a fighter named Sagat. The fight is arduous and, while Ryu is lying injured on the ground, he unleashes a furious DragonPunch (SHOYUKEN CLIP) and defeats Sagat, leaving a massive scar on this chest. Interestingly enough, both Ryu and Sagat are in the game's sequel, Street Fighter II: The World Warrior, funny how developers do that, put the same characters in the sequel... With this case, game's story loosely follows that of Ryu and his journeying. It doesn't make a whole of lot of reference to it, but as the Street Fighter series progressed, it became increasingly evident that Ryu was the protagonist of the series. This leads us to the stories of our other characters. There are 8 playable characters in Street Fighter II: Ryu, Ken, Chun-Li, E. Honda, Zangief, Blanka, Guile and Dhalsim, each with their own story. The game unites them all together in the form of a tournament, with the victor earning the title of the "World Warrior." The critical part of the game that makes each character different and unique is that they're all from different areas of the world. At our current stage in history, 2008, that doesn't really seem like a big deal, but when the game was released in the early 90s, the world was still quite a big place. The internet was still in its infancy, flight prices were expensive and telephone and competitive long distance plans had not even been conceived by telephone companies yet. When the internet came into existence and the age of mass communication was in full swing, the world became a very small universe unto itself where anyone can contact anyone else in seconds and that, among many other things, has changed the perception of world tournaments in general: One such tournament could be the Olympics, and another could be Street Fighter II. Because no one could have ever expected the revolution that the internet would bring about - or if they could, no one could expect the magnitude of the change which actually happened - the universe of Street Fighter exists in a traditional fashion. Traditional Japanese martial arts, Chinese styles of fighting, Russian wrestling, East-Indian Yoga, American street fighting - you name it. Could the composers have taken this approach too? Only one way to find out... let's listen to our representative from China, "Chun-Li" (CHUN-LI) MUSIC That was "Chun-Li" from the Street Fighter II OST and how did it sound? I'm pretty sure that that isn't what modern Chinese music sounds like. We acknowledge that the music has an Asian sound to it, but if it's not modern, then what is it? The answer to that, ladies and gentlemen, is "traditional." Because the world is still a big place at this point, the audience has a Romantic and exotic look at other cultures of the world. The beauty of the system in this game is the traditional cultures highlighted in this game are not only numerous, but also varied. We have Asian (both Chinese and Japanese), Spanish, American, Brazilian, Thai, East Indian and the list goes on. Let's listen to some different types of music here. Hailing from India, this is the yoga-inspired martial artist, Dhalsim and it's from the Street Fighter OST. (DHALSIM) And now, from Brazil, this is "Blanka." (BLANKA) That was "Blanka" and now I get to ask a very open-ended and somewhat pointillistic question: How are the two different?" Your initial response may be "ummm... in every way?" And you wouldn't be too far off. If we take a look at how these styles, cultural trends and instruments developed in human history, we find out that these musical genres developed in two totally different ways, so they obviously don't carry a lot of the same musical conventions. Now, I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark that most people who are listening to this podcast come in with Western ideals or live in a Western country, meaning Canada, the United States, Britain, Western Europe, around that ballpark. Without trying to sound really ethnocentric, most of the world knows about Western history - it's probably because the West has been trying to... pretty much... conquer everyone for the last... I don't know... 600 years? Not saying that I endorse colonialism or any philosophy thereof, it's just kind of something that happened and here we are. With regards to music, a similar situation has happened with Music History, where we talk about the beginnings of Western music in Greece, developing through the Roman Empire, Feudal Europe, The Renaissance then developing into the Baroque Era, Classical, Romantic, 20th-century, etc. If I were to shout out names like Mozart, Beethoven or Stravinsky, you might say "yeah, I've heard of them," because that's what we've understood as music through history. It wasn't until composers Bela Bartok and Zoltan Kodaly began an excursion into a new field of musical study previously unexplored by scholars or music historians... this field also happens to be our big idea of the episode! (MARIO CLIP) Ethnomusicology. ENTHNOMUSICOLOGY Ethnomusicology is the study of music in a cultural context. The wiki on the subject takes this term one step further, calling it the "ethnography" or "anthropology" of music. Further stated in the wiki: "Jeff Todd Titon has called it the study of "people making music". It is often thought of as a study of non-Western musics, but can include the study of Western music from an anthropological or sociological perspective. Bruno Nettl (1983) believes it is a product of Western thinking, proclaiming "ethnomusicology as western culture knows it is actually a western phenomenon." [1] Nettl believes that there are limits to extraction of meaning from an indigenous culture's music due to perceptual distance of the Western observer from the culture." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnomusicology) The genre of ethnomusicology began practice in the late 1800s and the very beginnings of the 20th century, being primarily founded by a Hungarian composer named Bela Bartok. While Bartok is widely considered as the "father of Ethnomusicology", there are other important scholars in the field, perhaps most notably, the philosopher, educator and scholar, Zoltan Kodaly. These two men are going to be the focus of our "big idea" segment of the show. We'll start with Zoltan (ZOLTAN!). Zoltan Kodaly was born on December 16 of 1882 and spent most of his youth in Galanta, a town in modern-day Slovakia. He learned to play the violin in his youth and sang in a church choir. Enjoying music immensely, he decided to pursue music in a post-secondary institution, attending the Franz Liszt Academy at the University of Budapest, studying composition. One thing that he brought to his degree is his interest in ethnic folktales. With his interest in mind, he began to take a keen curiosity in ethnic folk music and began to seriously study folk music with a sense of importance and serious legimacy... interesting, isn't that what this show does with video game music? ANYWAYS, Kodaly began traveling to isolated and remote areas around Eastern Europe and recording the songs on phonograph cylinders. After much study of the songs, particularly on the their form and structure, he published a thesis entitled "Strophic Construction in Hungarian Folksong" and shortly after this, he met another composer - Bela Bartok. While Zoltan Kodaly is instrumental in the field of early music education, that is for a whole other episode, and it will be, I promise. Bela Bartok is another Hungarian composer; in fact, he was a child prodigy, learning over 40 songs by Age 4 and giving his first public recital at Age 11. Needless to say, the recital was very warmly accepted. He studied the piano during his youth and eventually became both a piano and composition student at the Royal Academy of Music in Budapest. As stated before, it is during these critical years, 1899 to 1903, that he met Zoltan Kodaly. The wiki on "Bela Bartok" describes the following years. It is quoted as follows: "In 1908, inspired by both their own interest in folk music and by the contemporary resurgence of interest in traditional national culture, he and Kod‡ly undertook an expedition into the countryside to collect and research old Magyar folk melodies. Their findings came as somewhat of a surprise: previously, most people had considered real Magyar folk music to be Gypsy music. The classic example of this misperception is Franz Liszt's famous Hungarian Rhapsodies for piano, which were actually based on popular Gypsy tunes of the time. In contrast, the old Magyar folk melodies discovered by Bart—k and Kod‡ly bore little if any resemblance to the popular music of the Gypsies. Instead, the songs they found were almost all based on pentatonic scales similar to those found in various Oriental folk traditions, notably those of Central Asia and Siberia. (Indeed, Kod‡ly later discovered striking parallels between some ancient Magyar songs and songs of the Mari and Chuvash peoples of north-eastern Russia.) Bart—k and Kod‡ly quickly set about incorporating elements of this real Magyar peasant music into their compositions. While Kod‡ly would frequently quote folk songs verbatim and write pieces derived entirely from authentic folk melodies, Bart—k's style was more of a synthesis of folk music, classicism, and modernism. He rarely used actual peasant melodies in his compositions, but his melodic and harmonic sense was still profoundly influenced by the folk music of Hungary and Romania, and he was very fond of the asymmetrical dance rhythms and pungent harmonies found in Bulgarian music." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9la_Bart%C3%B3k And that was the quote. There was a term near the middle of the quote, "pentatonic", we're going talk about that in the analysis section of the show - if you don't get it now, don't worry, you'll get it in about 10 minutes! Anyways, so this interest was in native folk music, but it didn't take ethnomusicology to make people realize that. Haydn, Beethoven, Bruckner, Grainger and many other Classical composers have quoted folk music in their work, including Mendohlsson's "Scottish Symphony" or Grainger's "Lincolnshire Posy," which is one of the biggest works for wind band in the history of... well... wind band. Let's listen to some of that, this is: "Lisbon", the first movement of Percy Aldridge Grainger's suite, "Lincolnshire Posy." It was written in 1937 and this performance is by the North Texas University Wind Ensemble from the "Composer's Collection" on Mr. Grainger and the group is conducted by Eugene Corporon. (LISBON - 0:00 - 0:35) Sorry, short clip, but it's a short movement. The catch with discussing any sort of anthropological history is that it can always be expanded or traced further back. The same is true with folk music - you can always dig deeper and always go further back, so I'm going to draw the discussion of ethnomusicology to a close. There are very good odds that we will tackle the discussion of folk music in a future episode of "Into the Score." Do you know what we need now? Some music, some crazy awesome cultural music. So, the sumo wrestler from Japan! This is E. Honda - we're going to talk about this guy for a bit here and then jump into the "Analysis" portion of the show, but let's start with his music, here's "E. Honda," by Yoshihiro Sakaguchi, Yoko Shimamura, Tatsuya Nishimura and Isao Abe. (E. HONDA) ANALYSIS E. Honda is a sumo-wrestler, but as the world didn't view the Japanese sumo-style of fighting with any sort of seriousness, he entered the competition to show everyone that sumo is a reputable style of fighting. THE MUSIC The composers have taken a lot time and put in a lot of effort to make each character's area unique, yet appropriate. Thankfully, everyone is from a different area for the world, so the composers could relax, stop holding their breath and write some appropriate cultural music for each fighter. Yeah, it's a bit stereotypical, but we often have to remember where stereotypes come from - often, a degree of the truth. E. Honda's area is a perfect example of this. E. Honda comes from Japan, so there are a lot of cultural instruments and conventions - a melody being played by a shakuhachi, or a medieval Japanese woodwind. It sounds like this: (SHAKUHACHI). Another instrument used is a plucked string instrument, called the "koto," and that sounds like this: (KOTO). However, just because you have traditional instruments in a piece of music, doesn't make it "traditional." For the most part, the listener may not even draw the conclusion that music is Japanese by just a few instruments - the listener deriving geography from music is a balance between not only the instruments in the work, but really what those instruments are doing. In this case, a lot of traditional Asian music has a particular scalar convention, making it very easy for the listener to say "sounds like Asian music." While this is a vast generalization, what I am trying to say is that there is one type of scale that has a uniquely Asian sound, called a "pentatonic" scale. "Penta" meaning "five" and "tonic" meaning "using tones," so a scale using five tones. Our traditional scales have eight tones. We've done this exercise before, let's take a major one: In a major scale, we can designate each note of a scale with a number. So the first note is "one", the second one is "two", etc. In the end, we get 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8, with "8" being the same name as "1." To get this pentatonic scale, we only play 1-2-3-5-6, we just don't do the 4th pitch or the 7th pitch. It sounds like this: (EXAMPLE). Now, what happen when we get a guitar to play it? (EXAMPLE) Well, nothing really crazy, but what if we get a shakuhachi to play it? (EXAMPLE) Hmmm... now we're getting a whole other sound - it has a very traditional Asian sound now. Instead of starting a scale on the first note of the scale, resulting in what's called a "major pentatonic," you can start it on the sixth note instead and get a "minor pentatonic" scale. Here is what it sounds like: (MINOR PENTATONIC) Here is the major: (MAJOR PENTATONIC) and now our minor one again. (MINOR PENTATONIC) E. Honda's music, is actually in this key. Let's take another example here and it will be a little more close to home. While many may not consider rock music "cultural," it did come from a tradition, primarily out of American rhythm and blues, which derived from the blues genre itself. While blues is not jazz, in its purest form, anyway, the two share musical influence and material and have throughout the history of either genre. Jazz is a combination of European tonality and African dance rhythms and it was born out of the blues. The blues is the first representative musical form of the African Americans and they used it to express their plight under slavery and the horror of their treatment in the United States. Both Jazz and Blues are forms that belong to the United States of America and both influenced Rock and Roll in the mid-20th century. If we go with that avenue, Rock music is a culturally American folk tradition. I know that Britain had a massive influence on rock music too, I would never deny that, but if Rock is American music, then our composers picked perfect music for "Ken's Stage" and this is what it sounds like. (KEN) That was "Ken" from Street Fighter II. What do we notice about the instrumentation? We have some sweet guitar, chunking things out, bass and drums, then a synth playing the melody. The first three (guitar, drums and bass) are kind of the "holy trinity" of the rock band. We have each one chunking out eighth notes and the drums doing their thing. The basics of a rock drum pattern include the snare drum on beats two and four and usually (but not always), the kick filling in the pattern on beats one and three. We call this pattern a "basic rock" pattern. A good example of exactly this pattern is... well... every AC/DC song, or even Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean" (BILLIE JEAN CLIP). There are essentially five parts to a rock drum kit. The bass drum (EXAMPLE), the snare drum (EXAMPLE), the toms (TOMS) the highhat (EXAMPLE) and the cymbals, usually a crash (EXAMPLE). Together, these different drums make up a unit that sounds like this. (DRUM KIT) Who else is from the US of A that we can find this rock pattern? How about Guile? Listen in particular for what the kick drum is doing in this example and in the one following. Try and really isolate that drum, here's "Guile." (GUILE) There is definitely a rock pattern in there. There are two things to notice here: The first is that the "American" characters aren't the only ones with rock patterns in the game. We actually hear it in other places too, linking the score together with this kind of "ethnic rock" pattern. Listen for it in "Ryu's Stage" and also, listen for the kick drum one more time. (RYU) Yeah, so the rock drumming is working its way into our other pieces too. For these last two works, I've asked you to isolate the kick drum and here's why I've asked that. In the last two pieces, the kick drum has just been doing its own thing and making a cool beat, which is okay. But another good convention in Western music is for the kick drum to work with another instrument in the band - the bass guitar. In this next bit of ethnic rock here, listen for how the bass guitar and the drums work together. The snare is on 2-and-4, but what about the kick drum and bass? Let's find out - here's "Blanka", (BLANKA) Yeah. We're going to bring this back to Ken actually, because our arrangement section doesn't just encompass one song - it encompasses an entire game and its resulting album. ARRANGEMENT OverClocked ReMix's album project, "Blood on the Asphalt" began on May 1st, 2005 and was released on May 29th one year later. It involved 15 remixers and it is comprised of 24 tracks, coming from Street Fighter II and Street Fighter III (I think as well as the other additions of those games). One of the 24 is called "Made in USA" and it remixes Ken's stage. It's a very cool arrangement by Sixto Sounds and I think that we should have a listen to it. Here is "Made in USA" by Juan Medrano, aka Sixto Sounds. (MADE IN USA) Beauty, that was "Made in USA": remixing "Ken Stage" and it's by Sixto Sounds from the album "Blood on the Asphalt." We're also going to listen to one more and it's remixing Vega's Stage and it's one of the few remixes or arrangements that we've heard on Into the Score. It's called "Spittin' Narcissism" and it's remixed by Jose E. Felix also known as "Jose the Bronx Rican." Enjoy. (SPITTIN' NARCISSISM) Awesome, so that was "Spittin' Narcissism" by Jose the Bronx Rican, remixing "Vega Stage." One of the awesome things about the track is that there are a lot of fan-made music videos of it on YouTube, which you don't see a lot for remixes, I'm sure. Just search the track name on YouTube and see what you get! In which case, this has been "Into the Score" for... well... January, I suppose. The next episode, I am quite confident in saying that Glenn Stafford and Russell Brower from Blizzard will be on the show to discuss the making of Starcraft's score. I know that I've been saying that for a while, but I'm pretty sure that this is the one! If you ever want to check out more on this show or other past shows, you can always find them at http://www.intothescore.com. Feel free to leave comments or leave reviews on iTunes or Podcast Alley - sparking up discussion on the show is always a good idea! If you want to reach me, you can send me a note at Kenley@intothescore.com, so that's k-e-n-l-e-y @ intothescore.com, all one word. With that said, thanks so much for listening and we'll see you in 3 weeks! Until next time! END http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=263086736 1